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06 April 2004 @ 10:14 am
So refreshing  
I turned on the radio this morning, and they were playing something other than Nirvana. This made me absurdly happy.

I've never understood celebrity cults, and I don't think I ever will.
Tags: ,
Eric Franklin: Blankgamethyme on April 6th, 2004 10:24 am (UTC)
...curiouser and curiouser...psychotik on April 6th, 2004 10:33 am (UTC)
i totally had no idea why there was nirvina the other day until someone clued me in. she immediately freaked and went "omg, you don't care about kobain? look at the impact he had on music!" and i calmly replied "yes, i know...but they don't play the beatles on the day john lennon died. some people know how to move on."

i still can't believe that was ten years ago. my cousin cried. i shrugged. i mean, i liked the band, but it's not like he was my godfather. i still have the same mentality, for the most part.
Jim: Magnetic Fieldswarpdragon on April 6th, 2004 10:36 am (UTC)
Actually, lots of stations do play lots of Beatles on the day John Lennon died. Probably one or two went wall-to-wall Beatles on the 10th anniversary.
...curiouser and curiouser...psychotik on April 6th, 2004 12:34 pm (UTC)
i'm totally missing out.

i guess my point is that sometimes it's just time to move on. shit happens, and it sucks, but i'm not going to get too torn up about it. disappointed, perhaps, when i feel that people who are offering a lot to music die before they're "supposed to," but whatever. *shrug* like i said - i'll save my hardcore mourning for people i really knew and loved.
Jim: Magnetic Fieldswarpdragon on April 6th, 2004 12:38 pm (UTC)
Just because someone takes a little time to remember someone significant in their life doesn't mean they haven't "moved on."
Mr. Flibble: Mr. Flibble on Vacation!crispengray on April 6th, 2004 01:12 pm (UTC)


Like the music or not, Kobain was tremendously influential, and his death was a tragedy. Having a radio station remember his contributions and the tragedy of his death doesn't bug me.

I'm not a big Nirvana fan. I prefer their songs as covered by Tori Amos, or parodied by Wierd Al. But I really didn't mind the fans mourning yesterday, and playing more than the normal amount of Nirvana.
...curiouser and curiouser...psychotik on April 6th, 2004 02:14 pm (UTC)
i'm talking about the people who were crying. the radio stations that played NOTHING but nirvana. that's just...pathetic. in my opinion. that's just my opinion. *shrug*
Jimwarpdragon on April 6th, 2004 02:23 pm (UTC)
It's a good thing we have people like you to judge our emotions, to let us know when our grief is unacceptable. Otherwise, how would we know?

It's one thing to not like Nirvana, to not care about the life or death, to be unaffected by the anniversary. Insulting those who are is quite another.
...curiouser and curiouser...psychotik on April 6th, 2004 02:24 pm (UTC)
it's a good thing you're so uptight, or i might forget how much life sucks. that'd be tragic, wouldn't it?
...curiouser and curiouser...psychotik on April 6th, 2004 02:26 pm (UTC)
oh, and for the record, i DO like nirvina. however, i don't memorialize anyone's death. wouldn't it be more appropriate to celebrate someone's birthday?

dude, i wasn't/am not trying to be rude, but you've got to respect my right to have my opinion. you've got yours. that's fine. they're different. i didn't say i ran around punching people in the face who were upset and distraught...i've just got bigger fish to fry than worrying about kurt's death from ten years ago. so i guess we'll have to just agree to disagree, before this gets out of hand.
Jim: Magnetic Fieldswarpdragon on April 6th, 2004 02:52 pm (UTC)
I respect not just your right to your opinion, but the opinion itself. You don't observe people's deaths, fine. That's your choice. It's when you insult those who do that I consider you to have crossed the line.
...curiouser and curiouser...psychotik on April 6th, 2004 02:53 pm (UTC)
alright, say what you want. i'm done. *shrug*
St. Sean the Amused: Eye of Akuseanb on April 6th, 2004 02:29 pm (UTC)
Wow, you are so very very touchy on this. Why does obsessing over a celebrity suicide mean this much to you?
Jim: Magnetic Fieldswarpdragon on April 6th, 2004 02:49 pm (UTC)
It's something I choose to do, and I do it unobtrusively. Nobody's getting in your way, and nobody's keeping you from changing the station.

But when you and psykotic insult me - yes, me - I suppose I should just let it go?

What gives you the right to tell anyone to "get over it" in any context? If I mourn my grandfather on the tenth anniversary of his death, is that "pathetic?" I'll give you a gram of credit and assume you'll say no. But my grandpa died when I was in second grade and I hadn't been close to him anyway. Cobain had more effect on my psyche than my grandpa did. You've seen how seriously I take music, and Nirvana was a big one for me, and I felt his death.

And so forgive me if I'm a little offended by your dismissive insults. You don't get it, it doesn't affect you, fine. But there's a huge difference between saying that and dismissing everyone who is affected as members of a "cult of celebrity."
...curiouser and curiouser...psychotik on April 6th, 2004 03:01 pm (UTC)
first of all, if you're going to bitch about me, spell my name correctly. it's on this page about a zillion times.

secondly, if you were unobtrusive, my problem doesn't lie with you. my problem lies with the people who harrassed our (denver) local radio stations for not observing cobain's death. maybe they realize that the majority of their listeners may get bored with the same songs over and over. they did play nirvana - actually they played some great track that, to my knowledge, hardly ever get/got radio play. my problem is with the kids who huddled in masses of THIRTY FREAKIN' PEOPLE in front of my building, making it impossible to enter MY HOME without feeling awkward. that's my problem. people who are so fucking uptight they don't observe the world around them are my problem.

if that's you, then great. get out of my face and leave me alone. if that's not you, even better. i respect you that much more, for mourning privately over someone who obviously had a big effect on your life.
Jimwarpdragon on April 6th, 2004 03:08 pm (UTC)
Sorry about the misspelling. I use Lynx and Pine for my personal stuff at work, so it wasn't on the page as I was typing.

Here, we had two stations. One was wall-to-wall Nirvana (except the occasional Alice in Chains/Mad Season stuff), the other was pretty much normal except a bit more Nirvana than usual. I thought that was great - the people that wanted it constant (like me) got it; the people that didn't could switch over. The hitch is that the other station is relatively new to the format, so a lot of people didn't even know it was there, much less that it was playing Something, Anything Else.

Why were people in front of your building? Is the radio station in the same building?
...curiouser and curiouser...psychotik on April 6th, 2004 03:13 pm (UTC)
no. apparently EVERYONE in my building is a huge cobain fan. *grumbles* ok, so perhaps i should be fair and mention i also had a killer migraine so all i wanted to do was go home, and then once i finally got there i could hear them sniffling/sobbing outside. that, i guess to me, is a bit much. and of course, because i just got more meds today, the migraine has been lingering, so when i wrote my first comment here i was just grumpy at the memory. i am sorry i offended you. it's obvious you're not one of the ones i was talking about. i should have made that apparent. *sigh*

i can handle more nirvana than normal...i cannot handle constant ANYTHING. even my favorite bands of all time get too repetitive to listen to over and over, at least for me. i think it just...loses something that way. anyway, the radio stations that were playing more nirvana than normal were getting harrased by people. one DJ finally was like "go listen to (insert station i can't remember here)! they're playing nirvana! you could be listening to nirvana instead of yelling at me!"

i found that at least vaguely amusing the first time. after that, i just wanted to smack people for assuming that everyone is caught up in it. if you are, fine - go listen to the station that's wall to wall, like you did, and don't complain. if not, that's fine too, and listen to 93.3 like i did. there's a simple solution for either. just leave me out of it - if i wanted to cry, etc i would. don't make me feel bad because i didn't (again, i'm talking about people on campus/in my building, not you).

ok. i think i'm done.
Jim: Magnetic Fieldswarpdragon on April 6th, 2004 03:35 pm (UTC)
If the name of your building is Nevermind Apartments, then you should consider that fair warning.

I understand just wanting people out of your face, and I'm down with that. Frankly, I got the same way around Sept. 11, 2002. I understand that much.
...curiouser and curiouser...psychotik on April 6th, 2004 03:37 pm (UTC)
i'm 100% like that on september 11th. i almost got fired for not observing a moment of silence. i quietly and respectfully explained to my boss that i mourn in my own way. i almost lost my father that day, so i sympathize above all.

i guess it's just people that make a big show of being in pain that bugs me. not to say it's wrong, but i understand quiet suffering much more. it's hard to always feel that a big show is genuine.
Jim: Magnetic Fieldswarpdragon on April 7th, 2004 03:01 pm (UTC)
I've tmporarily added you to my friends list so you can see this.
...curiouser and curiouser...psychotik on April 7th, 2004 03:10 pm (UTC)
wow! i'm temporarily grateful! (kidding.)
St. Sean the Amused: bmageseanb on April 6th, 2004 03:16 pm (UTC)
Quite frankly, you seem to be LOOKING for insults. I've said "I've never understood celebrity cults, and I don't think I ever will.", "you are so very very touchy on this.", and asked why this is so significant to you, because I am genuinely confused by your behavior. You seem to be working very hard at creating reasons to be offended.

Similarly, when psychotic gave her input that "i guess my point is that sometimes it's just time to move on. shit happens, and it sucks, but i'm not going to get too torn up about it.", you seemingly started frothing over nothing. I'll drop that thread ... she can fight her own flamewars.

First anniversery, I can understand some mourning. Second anniversery, I'll grant some rememberence can be appropriatte. But for ANYBODY to get full-day obsessive about ANYBODY's death ten years later seems excessive, unbalanced, and disproportionate. I've had grandparents die, and I don't even KNOW when the tenth anniversery of their deaths are going to be. I can't imagine caring as much for some celebrity as I do for someone in my family, much less caring MORE about some musician I've never known as a person.

But that's still their business. I haven't been telling anybody how to behave, just stating that this cult-like behavior doesn't make any sense to me.
Jim: Magnetic Fieldswarpdragon on April 6th, 2004 04:14 pm (UTC)
'kay, first off, saying anybody is engaging in "cult-like behavior" is pretty dodgy. It depends on context, a lot, but when I use the term "Church of Dredging" to describe a certain group up here, it ain't in an amusing, complimentary way. If I called them the "Cult of Dredging," it'd likely be worse.

As for time factors... it's subjective. I was yelled at at one point six months after my divorce for moping too long, basically told it was time to get over it, and I bit back even harder than I have on you and Kat and psychotik. I mean, WTF? Who is to say how long someone can mourn? Who's to say what's appropriate? Yes, you can say that someone who goes to the house every anniversary might have some issues, and somebody who does the same despite living in Flordia, even moreso. And I imagine most mourners, like me, haven't spent every day of the last 10 years thinking about it. I probably thought about the anniversary more than most other people, because it's also my mom's birthday, and I remember that. but I am touchy in general about the idea that anyone can judge anyone else's grief. And yes, everything you say is obviously your opinion, but at some point it does veer into insult. And yes, my general antipathy to these kind of statements and my perception that they're about me means I'm
I'm going to jump on these things faster than probably anyone else you know.

I cared more about Cobain's death than probably anyone I didn't know, and I doubt that the death of anyone now could affect me the same way - not Tim Booth, not Stephin Merritt, maybe Colin Meloy but probably not even him. A soccer player from my team died in a car crash a couple years ago, and that was sad but didn't have a real affect on me.

But Nirvana was a huge deal to me then, and I still think it's horrible that his sickness* got to him like that. And I mourn for the songs he'll never write, because songs matter to me.

*as far as I'm concerned, suicide is the final symptom of a disease. I refuse to buy into the idea that all people who kill themselves are simply cowards or lacking in moral fiber or whatnot.

Mei Noelmeinoel on April 7th, 2004 03:54 pm (UTC)
sadly, i don't think it is the 1st symptom. i think it is the >last< symptom. and i wish he had gotten help before then. i think the reason he touches people so much is that he symbolizes what might have been. his life was cut short. by his own choice, but cut short. if he had lived maybe he mean less to people than he does now, but part of his meaning is symbolic of loss / loss of creativity / loss of youth / loss of potential for people of the generation who watched him emerge from the masses, and then dissapear. people need something to focus those emotions on because they don't know how to express them in the context of their own lives. so while his life and death are meaningful in their own context, they have assumed a cultural context beyond that for many people.
Stupendous Manfarmalloc on April 7th, 2004 12:37 am (UTC)
Just wait till Sept 11 2011.
Jim: Magnetic Fieldswarpdragon on April 6th, 2004 10:38 am (UTC)
Have you not heard 96.5? They're pretty much th esame playlist as 107.7, and yesterday they were playing a normal playlist iwth probably twice as much Nirvana as normal.

If only the two stations wouldn't run their commercials at the same time...
indiadawn on April 6th, 2004 11:17 am (UTC)
They played it here too, you would think it would have been more predominant where you are. Considering, not to make anyone feel old or anything;), that we graduated the year that happened...ugh, anyway, goes back to being young at heart:)
c_jydc_jyd on April 6th, 2004 01:58 pm (UTC)
In all, I didn't mind it. Granted, I am a fan of at least some of Nirvana's stuff, went to the memorial service in Seattle, etc.
The fact that influential people have memorials doesn't mean people haven't moved on necessarily. Classic stations still frequently have tributes on the days Lennon, Henrix, etc. died. It may not be all day, nothing but, but it can be hours at a time, and those are much more than 10 years later.

Besides, as far as influence goes, a lot of the stuff playing now on popular radio might not sound like Nirvana, but I still thank them when what's playing /doesn't/ sound like Warrant, Metallica, Michael Jackson and Guns & Roses, aka the bands directly displaced by Teen Spirit, and when a lot of radio and producers started to look for new sounds, believing they could sell, instead of relying on the same half dozen bands.

Still, good getting back to routine. For those who don't care for Nirvana, it'll probably be back to normal, play a few extra Nirvana songs on this date next year, instead of wall to wall. 11 isn't as big a deal as 10th anniversary for those who do care.
...curiouser and curiouser...psychotik on April 6th, 2004 02:36 pm (UTC)
i agree. hell, if i lived in seattle i probably would have gone to the memorial. i don't even mind listening to the entire nirvana cataloge in one day...but hearing the songs over and over again makes them stale, which is one thing i never thought nirvana could be.

i guess i'm with sean and i just don't understand why people take it personally. i guess i'll never understand. some of my favorite bands have lost very impressing members. people who made a difference in my kind of music...but i don't let it get to me, personally. life sucks. i understand that. i guess i just don't get it, therefore this paragraph was wasted. sorry.