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23 April 2008 @ 08:18 pm
 
"Fundamentalism exists in a symbiotic relationship with a coercive secularism."
 
 
 
(Anonymous) on April 24th, 2008 03:13 pm (UTC)
RE: Quote
"Fundamentalism exists in a symbiotic relationship with a coercive secularism."

Who said that?
Why?
And in what context?

I like it though.

I'm not sure if secularism is "coercive" or not. I mean I think I can see where a fundamentalist might say that. But isn't a coercive secularist also a fundamentalist, just of a different sort.

I read an article once in a Christian magazine about how secular people do not want any "dogma" in their lives. But yet, when they get on an airplane they demand a purely dogmatic pilot. I didn't really understand the point of the article, and I don't remember it very well. But, the article was missing one key point. It doesn't matter what you believe in, your belief will not and can not alter the laws of physics and nature. Therefore we insist on a dogmatic pilot because that pilot is schooled in the dogma that we call "science and technology" that is governed by empirical laws. Of course dogma really has no place in science. This is a distinction that a lot of secularist live by.

But it seems that fundamentalist are unwilling to accept this distinction and believe that the entire universe will bend to there belief system. I think this is best illustrated by some fundamentalist attitudes towards widely accepted scientific facts like evolution.

The whole debate is enough to make one want to become a Nihilist.
Sordidatussordidatus on April 24th, 2008 03:14 pm (UTC)
RE: Quote
"Fundamentalism exists in a symbiotic relationship with a coercive secularism."

Who said that?
Why?
And in what context?

I like it though.

I'm not sure if secularism is "coercive" or not. I mean I think I can see where a fundamentalist might say that. But isn't a coercive secularist also a fundamentalist, just of a different sort.

I read an article once in a Christian magazine about how secular people do not want any "dogma" in their lives. But yet, when they get on an airplane they demand a purely dogmatic pilot. I didn't really understand the point of the article, and I don't remember it very well. But, the article was missing one key point. It doesn't matter what you believe in, your belief will not and can not alter the laws of physics and nature. Therefore we insist on a dogmatic pilot because that pilot is schooled in the dogma that we call "science and technology" that is governed by empirical laws. Of course dogma really has no place in science. This is a distinction that a lot of secularist live by.

But it seems that fundamentalist are unwilling to accept this distinction and believe that the entire universe will bend to there belief system. I think this is best illustrated by some fundamentalist attitudes towards widely accepted scientific facts like evolution.

The whole debate is enough to make one want to become a Nihilist.
St. Sean the Amusedseanb on April 24th, 2008 03:55 pm (UTC)
Re: Quote
Karen Armstrong: A Brief History of Islam, p.166 (Modern Library, 2000)

In this particular chapter, she discusses the rise of "Fundamentalism" within the Muslim community of the 20th century and similarities between this movement and fundamentalism in other religions.

Here's some nice follow up:
"Fundamentalism therefore reveals a fissure in society, which is polarized between those who enjoy secular culture and those who regard it with dread. As time passes, the two camps become increasingly unable to understand one another. Fundamentalism thus begins as an internal dispute, with liberalizers or secularists within one's own culture or nation. In the first instance, for example, Muslim fundamentalists will often oppose their fellow countrymen or fellow Muslims who take a more positive view of modernity, rather than such external foes as the West or Israel. Very often, fundamentalists begin by withdrawing from mainstream culture to create an enclave of pure faith (as, for example, within the ultra-Orthodox Jewish communities in Jerusalem or New York). Thence they will sometimes conduct an offensive which can take many forms, designed to bring the mainstream back to the right path and resacralize the world. All fundamentalists feel that they are fighting for survival, and because their backs are to the wall, they can believe that they have to fight their way out of the impasse. In this frame of mind, on rare occasions, some resort to terrorism. The vast majority, however, do not commit acts of violence, but simply try to revive their faith in a more conventional, lawful way."

She does make the point that the fundamentalist "backlash" against modernity has been more pronounced in areas where secularism has been externally imposed. Externally-backed secular dictators over strongly religious cultures that haven't fully modernized have been very effective at breeding fundamentalism,.
Mahh p'tchaaprincessgeek on April 28th, 2008 09:09 pm (UTC)
Hey sugar, I noticed you dropped me off your friends list. Are we no longer friends? Sorry for whatever I did. See ya.
St. Sean the Amusedseanb on April 28th, 2008 09:56 pm (UTC)
It was just a clean-up. I removed a few journals based on my own reading patterns.

Don't read too much into LiveJournal's use of the word "friend".
Mahh p'tchaaprincessgeek on April 28th, 2008 10:37 pm (UTC)
Whatevs